Posts by The Rebel

75

Evolution and Atheism - please help

by Fernando in

not being familiar with either, my question is:.

what is the relationship between evolution and atheism?.

i'd love to hear from anyone and everyone, and also from any perspective.. without limiting the conversation in any way, i would of course also appreciate comments that are simple, clear, direct and correct (as i don't have the capacity to do a phd in evolution or atheism)..

The Rebel

GoneAwol " The bible.....Absolute rubbish"

The Rebel (A) Playing devils advocate, try telling the super pious religious followers that.

I say this because " whilst science books can update books as more information becomes available" and whilst I agree this is true we also have new versions or maybe I should write new " visions" of the bible. As witnesses our updated bible came through the Watchtower, and other religions also have updated information from the bible .So in away religion like science does try to get closer to the truth, with updated more modern information. This is what happened with 1914 and the generation change.

My point is it's wrong to believe all scientists are squeeky clean both in motive or thinking despite credentials, and so whilst I appreciate my new freedom to think, I believe all thinking is limited and it's foolish not to independently think things out, without just accepting teachings from those that claim a higher authority.

The Rebel.

32

Apathy trolley chat

by punkofnice in

i was in a different city this weekend so i decided to natter to 2 bored jws on the apathy trolley.i just nattered, nothing thought provoking or anti witness.

i was waiting for someone so hard time to spare.what struck me was, that no matter how many times i said that i don't believe in god, they spoke to me as if i did.

they kept asking me how god would feel about stuff.

The Rebel

The Organisation is aware of Apostates calling trolley carts the " Apathy Trolly" and in the March 1st watchtower, page 15 you will read this gem.

" Apathy is one of the characteristic responces of any non-believer, when ( IT) is subjected to stimuli too intense or too complicated to cope with. The cure for apathy is not our indifference when standing at our Trolly, because as Jehovers Witnesses we know the world is evil and this is our way of dealing with non-believers until Jehover approves our success by anniliating these non believing creatures at Armageddon":-)

The Rebel.

75

Evolution and Atheism - please help

by Fernando in

not being familiar with either, my question is:.

what is the relationship between evolution and atheism?.

i'd love to hear from anyone and everyone, and also from any perspective.. without limiting the conversation in any way, i would of course also appreciate comments that are simple, clear, direct and correct (as i don't have the capacity to do a phd in evolution or atheism)..

The Rebel

Cofty" The bible is full of errors and contradictions"

The Rebel (A) I accept that the bible is full of errors and contradictions, I accept that the God of the old testement is Inzane. Isn't that how we learn, by reading words, because we think words are important?

But can we presume that by reading words we will understand the secrets of life?

Can we accept that truth is in books?

That to read the correct book is to find truth?

The world is full of science books that contradict past science, yet they all attempted to explain the world around us and like the bible we're considerd truth at the time of writing.

So whilst I accept that the bible is full of contradictions:-

A) isn't it a bit presumptuous to think the current books we read today on science contain absolute truth?

B) Surely we would we be better to approach such books thinking they contain only current reccomendations of truth?

The Rebel.

p.s an added thought ( C) can words ever contain truth?

75

Evolution and Atheism - please help

by Fernando in

not being familiar with either, my question is:.

what is the relationship between evolution and atheism?.

i'd love to hear from anyone and everyone, and also from any perspective.. without limiting the conversation in any way, i would of course also appreciate comments that are simple, clear, direct and correct (as i don't have the capacity to do a phd in evolution or atheism)..

The Rebel

Cofty: " Evolution is a fact"

The Rebel. Possibly, but personally for me it's a theory as I am still researching.

Cofty " Atheism is not a theory. It's a lack of belief in gods"

The Rebel. Noted.

75

Evolution and Atheism - please help

by Fernando in

not being familiar with either, my question is:.

what is the relationship between evolution and atheism?.

i'd love to hear from anyone and everyone, and also from any perspective.. without limiting the conversation in any way, i would of course also appreciate comments that are simple, clear, direct and correct (as i don't have the capacity to do a phd in evolution or atheism)..

The Rebel

Fernando (Q ) What is the relationship between evolution and atheism?

Fernando. I would like to learn more about the stepping stones on the journey.

Well like you Fernando I don't have the capacity for a P.H.D in either subject, but I think :

a) They are both theories not facts.

b) They have both came about by information trading.

And with the Internet we can investigate such questions despite not having the capacity for getting a P.H.D . However the danger is our ability in knowledge sourcing as this can be challenging,

Anyway with the Internet religion can no longer force me to believe in the Almighty, because I can now get out of bed, and do my own research. And doing this I am no longer intolerant to the idea of Evolution, but I won't believe every theory because the scientists say they are right. That would be narrow minded and make me a traitor to the FREEWILL I now have, having left the Watchtower.

Most importantly it's fun learning about such topics, particularly on this board. I also think it worth mentioning if Genesis didn't happen, there was no origional sin, and in my opinion no Jesus, and therefore evolution destroys Christian theology, However I must confess I still find some of the theories connected with evolution absurd, but in conclusion I think Iam on the path of discovery.

The Rebel.

15

A question on natural selection

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

last friday my boy of ten was very late back from school, so i called the school, they called the police, and to cut a long horrible exsperience short he had been helping a younger boy fly his kite.. but what has occurred to me is that when orlando was 5 years old he was totally dependent on mummy and daddy, whilst horses, cats, birds and other animals are born and are independent within days.. so my question on natural selection is, how are we humuns still here?.

the rebel..

The Rebel

Last friday my boy of ten was very late back from school, so I called the school, they called the police, and to cut a long horrible exsperience short he had been helping a younger boy fly his kite.

But what has occurred to me is that when Orlando was 5 years old he was totally dependent on mummy and daddy, whilst horses, cats, birds and other animals are born and are independent within days.

So my question on natural selection is, how are we humuns still here?

The Rebel.

51

Why facts fail to reach the faithful, (even the intelligent ones)

by done4good in

jw
friends

i posted this on another thread, and decided it deserves its own...thoughts?.

an unfortunate artifact of evolution is that belief can, and often does trump fact.

survival is at the core of what belief is about.

The Rebel

done4good " the part of the two sentences lost in the ellipsis is key"

The Rebel, sorry about that, and I apologise if I inadvertently in my post took your comment out of context.

The Rebel.

51

Why facts fail to reach the faithful, (even the intelligent ones)

by done4good in

jw
friends

i posted this on another thread, and decided it deserves its own...thoughts?.

an unfortunate artifact of evolution is that belief can, and often does trump fact.

survival is at the core of what belief is about.

The Rebel

Done4good " humuns have developed a concience and the ability to reason.....,our most primal instinct is to survive first"

The Rebel:- I believe humuns like animals don't rationalise, they instinctively feel. Both animals and humuns " ethical and moral concience " even from the beginning of creation has been to sacrifice life for a sibling.

As for facts, I believe they are so far beyound the grasp of the humun mind, and we don't learn them from our parents nor our education system, anymore than we learn them in the nine months we spend in our mothers stomach. We leave our mothers belly and we learn to think and we learn to change our mind....

The Rebel.

Being bought up in a controlled environment....

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

i am amazed and shocked by this, founded in 2006 "seeking arrangements" dating site boasts 5 million members worldwide.

( a "sugar baby" is where rich men date younger girls).

top 3 university " sugar baby" students in england.. 1. kent - 724.

The Rebel

I am amazed and shocked by this, founded in 2006 "seeking arrangements" dating site boasts 5 million members worldwide. ( A "sugar baby" is where rich men date younger girls)

TOP 3 UNIVERSITY " SUGAR BABY" students in England.

1. Kent - 724

2. Cambridge - 704

3. Nottingham- 671

As an ex-witness I value an education, but if I had a daughter :-

A) I wouldn't want her paying for her education this way.

B) As a man I could never treat a woman like that.

C) I don't want to judge the " sugar babies" but selling yourself for an education to me is the same as selling yourself for a designer handbag, and I believe will effect true love in the future.

Anyway neither the man nor the sugar baby are doing anything wrong or illegal, so who am I to judge the morals of others? But I have awakened from my Watchtower hell to discover the society i now live in is a less controlled environment than I grew up in.

My question therefore is, HOW have YOU having left the organisation, dealt with alternative relationship models that we were told and believed were immoral?

The Rebel

70

how do most of you now feel about the military?

by sowhatnow in

was not sure where to post this, but i was curious, how do some of you now feel about the military?

would any of you let your children enlist, or would you yourselves join any military field?

how do you feel about the idea of women in the military?

The Rebel

A couple of decades ago, Sweden had a strong military. Then a strange thing happened and in 2000, the Swedish Parliment made a decision to cut the budget by half. And in 2004 25% of the military personal were let go.

Now I can only assume the Swedish polititians either:-

A) Do not imagine there is a need to defend the country.

B) They realise even if they had a large military, they couldn't defend themselfs against Russia's military.

Q) What are the advantages of Swedish military cutbacks?

A) The money has been spent on the health of the population, and giving the aged,sick and disabled a decent quality of life.

For many Swedish citizens there's no question this is a good thing, yet many citizens would prefer a strong military. My opinion it would be nice if we lived in the words of John Lennon....." and the world will live as one"

The Rebel.